The "Yes, You Are" piece, is quite a stark contrast to Amy Winter's article (http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist/1595018.html) that defines "feminist values" and tells us that we need to adopt these values to be real feminists.
Maybe it is fascinating, but Winter is wrong. :) I think it's much more important at this point to remind people that equality has still not happened and get them interested in pursuing it than to snub them away from political activism because they're somehow not doing it right.
I'm more in the middle. I think much of Winters' article is totally judgmental, but at the same time I think it's a copout to say, "anything you want feminism to be, it is". I want people to think. We aren't going to get anywhere unless we agree on some shared values (I don't agree with Winters' values, however).
For instance, I think it's worth challenging a woman who says, "I'm a feminist, and I think we need to work toward equality", and meanwhile she's off getting her boobs enlarged because it makes her "feel good about herself". Why does that make her feel better about herself? I think that's a feminist question, and a good one to ask. I don't think it's worthwhile to bitch at women about how they're not as feminist as they should be, but I think one of the goals should be for us all to have our perspectives challenged, and not to just say "because I think this, and I'm a woman, it must be feminist thought".
In general I agree with you. I think the way to challenge someone isn't to say "you can't be a feminist", though. Here's an interesting Slate article on body image and feminism (http://slate.msn.com/id/2111753); it has a few flawed conclusions, I think, but it's examining the same stuff we're talking about.
Cool! I actually read that Slate article last week. This is neat, we should pass this stuff along to each as we find it, it seems to be a common interest.
What did you think the flawed conclusions were? I liked the idea that feminism and femininity have some real conflicts with each other, but I'm not convinced that they're totally incompatible.
I also agree that it's wouldn't do any good to tell someone they aren't or can't be a feminist. I don't think that's what I said. That's certainly not what I mean by "challenge". I mean that I think it's worthwhile to ask them to think about why something like getting a boob job is a feminist act.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2005-01-17 10:51 pm (UTC)I find this sort of debate fascinating.
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Date: 2005-01-18 12:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-18 12:27 am (UTC)For instance, I think it's worth challenging a woman who says, "I'm a feminist, and I think we need to work toward equality", and meanwhile she's off getting her boobs enlarged because it makes her "feel good about herself". Why does that make her feel better about herself? I think that's a feminist question, and a good one to ask. I don't think it's worthwhile to bitch at women about how they're not as feminist as they should be, but I think one of the goals should be for us all to have our perspectives challenged, and not to just say "because I think this, and I'm a woman, it must be feminist thought".
no subject
Date: 2005-01-21 09:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-21 09:40 pm (UTC)What did you think the flawed conclusions were? I liked the idea that feminism and femininity have some real conflicts with each other, but I'm not convinced that they're totally incompatible.
I also agree that it's wouldn't do any good to tell someone they aren't or can't be a feminist. I don't think that's what I said. That's certainly not what I mean by "challenge". I mean that I think it's worthwhile to ask them to think about why something like getting a boob job is a feminist act.